War = Holocaust?

[Ron Weasley]

I'm just curious if anyone noticed the similarities between the Harry Potter books and the German Holocaust.

Step one: Take over the government.
Step two: Take over teaching.
Step three: Require people not on the 'list' to be registered.
Step four: Systematically kill those not on the list.
Step five: Partay.

Wiki explains the Holocaust

Note the similar personality traits between Voldemort and Hitler:

Voldemort
Hitler

Anyone have any thoughts or ideas on this? I've been thinking about it for a while, but don't want to do the analysis of this one. I want to do a group thing for it with the peoples here, so that we can break it down without having to do a whole bunch of work solo. Like, I did the same thing for Animal Farm and how it was like Communist Russia, let's do the same thing with HP and the Holocaust.

Anyone?

[Theodore Nott]

I think theres actually a lot of major differences between Voldemort and Hilter. The most obvious one is that Hilter apparently loved Eva Braun, mistress/wife, while Voldemort was completely unable to love; unless you count the relationship between him and the snake.
Also, their motives were different for starters. Voldemort had always wanted power, revenge etc while Hilter, somewhere in the beginning, wanted to make a difference in Germany. Unfortunately he turned rather (or lets say extremely) nuts in the end but I think he was a bit more normal human being than Voldemort ever was.

About Voldemort's whole "pureblood" mania; that came from his own inheritage while Hilter.. well.. already was white/christian when he wanted the jews/blacks gone. He was really convinced that the jews were to blame for Germany's bad economics and he must have had some kind of wicked thought that when all the "scum" of Germany was gone, the country would be whole again.
But generally they are a lot alike because they both want certain races killed and they use extreme methods to get what they want.
Which leads me to think that Voldemort was a strong personality while Hilter always was a weak little power sick man. It probably sounds a bit wrong, but Voldemort is more like a strong leader you can admire and fear than Hilter.

-sigh- just some thoughts on those two. I also have a lot of ideas on the similarities between the two wars but I don't feel like writing it all now.

[badfaith88]

I think the comparison is too simple if left to be Voldemort and Hitler. Rather then a single event I think Voldemort's reign is meant to encompass a very wide spectrum of prejudice. Any kind of mass mistreatment of a group of people shares certain similarities, from singling them out to creating reasoning for their "inferiority" and a reasoning to why they should be demeaned or exterminated.

[Theodore Nott]

I'm sure you are right Blaise. There are probably a ton of other people we can compare but right now it's about Hilter, Voldemort, 2nd world war and the magic war. This is just singling out one subject of a hundred and we gotta start somewhere, right?

This thread could easily be named "War = History of Mankind".

But I think that talking about these two specific wars is a clever thing because everybody know about 2nd world war, holocaust and Hilter. If we begin talking Russia, Middle-East etc, some might be lost and unable to discuss further.

[Remus Lupin]

[/s] really got to him and he started on the world, heh.

Voldemort.. He was pureblooded (Or so he figured) and grew up with Salazar's give of Parseltongue. He was the heir of Slytherin, I think that gave him enough ego and will to start to purify the wizarding world to make it like that Salazar had wanted. He agreed with Slytherin's policy of pureblood teaching, and it just spiraled from there.

In a way, they're alike, but different all the same. Both wanted to make changes, but one had started as something somewhat innocent (Pfeh. At least more innocent than Voldie's plan) and it just went out of control. I think that there are a lot of leaders that would be also considered for this, but in my personal opinion, Hitler is the most well known that could be related to Voldemort's cause - and they do have a point.

-shrugshrug- My opinion; again, a lot of what Theodore said. [/size][/ul]

[Ron Weasley]

I picked Hitler because I couldn't see a lot of people trying to compare him to Stalin, who, in my opinion, started out wanting power and killed those who opposed him. Amazingly enough, he killed over 20 million Russians based on a threat to his power and no one ever said anything about it, but Hitler kills 6 million people based on their religion and people go nuts. Moral of that story? If you plan on murdering millions, do it with the right reasons on paper. XD

Anyway, I did pick Hitler because he's more well known, as is the instance of the Holocaust. People were persecuted based on something they were born into (being a Muggle) and couldn't start to change (coz you can't just snap your fingers and stop being a Muggle-born wizard, or a Jew for that matter).

When I did the analysis for Animal Farm, it was more satirical in nature and easier to actually compare it to something in real life. With HP, it's harder to draw those parallels because HP isn't based on actual events. This is why I didn't ever get into this; it's hard to draw lines to connect the dots, and there are a lot of gaps... as in, a lot.

For example, what would Harry be in the Holocaust? Not any one person, that's for sure. He would have to symbolize a group of people, which I would think would be places that didn't fall to German rule, like Belgium or Denmark.

Like I said, I'm just trying to make sense of it with others so I can either dismiss it in my head or find out some interesting stuff.

[Theodore Nott]

Jun 3, 2008 1:33:22 GMT -5 Ron Weasley said:

He would have to symbolize a group of people, which I would think would be places that didn't fall to German rule, like Belgium or Denmark.

Wooot, go Denmark -cheers-

Eh >.> national pride, lmao

[demi]

The thing is that I guess it's human nature for a group of people to believe that they are superior to others. The Holocaust had a lot of similarities but look at the KKK that are still around in the United States. They are like the Death Eaters who believed they are superior to all other races all because they are white. People are naturally scared of people who are different from them which is why there have been so many religious wars in the past. People are intimidated by other religions because their morals conflict with their own. So the war in Harry Potter is based on a war that has been reoccurring since the beginning of time.

[hayley]

This is my area of expertise ! Rofl, I did the Holocaust for my eighth grade exiting project a couple years ago, and let's just say I got a little carried away. ^.^

I have to say, the similiarities between the Holocaust and the wizarding war hit me right away. If you read up on Aryan family trees, you'll see that there had to be a number of generations that were Jew-free, sort of like the whole half-blood, Muggle-born thing, in order to be considered Aryan. Most of the time, though, if some of your immediate family were Jews but you didn't look like one/practice the religion (because, yes, most of the time it hindered on that), you were left alone as long as you remained neutral/sided with Nazi Germany. On the other hand, you could be 100% Aryan and help smuggle in bombs for the Allies and have an attic full of Jews, and that would be like writing yourself a one-way ticket to the gas chambers. Take, for example, the Longbottoms and Weasleys. They're both pure-blooded families, but since they were very active in the Order, they put a hefty price on their heads. But, someone could be a half-blood and a member of the Death Eaters, and your family was pretty much safe.

Hitler and Voldemort, on the other hand, don't have as many similarities that jump out at me. I like what Nott said above, but I do have to add that they both had parallel childhoods. Hitler wasn't an orphan, sure, but his family was fairly poverished. There were constant claims against him, headed off by the Allies, that he had Jewish blood somewhere in his father's immediate family--they thought his grandmother became pregnant illegitamately while working in a Jewish household. But, Hitler concealed his origins and deflected any of the rumors, though suspiciously kept any German women from working for Jewish households. Anyway, that sort of reminded me of Voldemort, in that his father was a Muggle, but he was so ashamed of it that he took a new name (and really, no one but his fellow peers, former Professors, Dumbledore, and the trio knew his birth name--not the general wizarding public). Hitler also resented his father tremendously, even turning his hometown into an artillery practice area. While he was beaten by his father, he certainly didn't kill him as Voldemort did, but that, in a way, solidifies that Hitler was much more of a human being than Voldemort.

I also just have to add something about the radio ! It was a source of comfort during World War II, and then for those in the wizarding world. During WWII, it was also the only place where things were broadcasted truthfully, especially stations owned by Allies, as anything in print that didn't follow Nazi guidelines was contraband, and oftentimes the writers/publishers ended up in concentration camps (i.e., The Quibbler, and Xenophilius/Luna, bless them). Did anyone else pick up on that? I thought it was genius, the way JKR did that.

Erm... I got carried away again, but yeah, those are my thoughts on the manner. (:

[Remus Lupin]

I found an interview where a similar question arose.


Q: Many of us older readers have noticed over the years similarities between the Death Eaters tactics and the Nazis from the 30s and 40s. Did you use that historical era as a model for Voldemort's reign and what were the lessons that you hope to impart to the next generation?

JK: It was conscious. I think that if you're, I think most of us if you were asked to name a very evil regime we would think Nazi Germany. There were parallels in the ideology. I wanted Harry to leave our world and find exactly the same problems in the wizarding world. So you have the intent to impose a hierarchy, you have bigotry, and this notion of purity, which is this great fallacy, but it crops up all over the world. People like to think themselves superior and that if they can pride themselves in nothing else they can pride themselves on perceived purity. So yeah that follows a parallel. It wasn't really exclusively that. I think you can see in the Ministry even before it's taken over, there are parallels to regimes we all know and love. [Laughter and applause.] So you ask what lessons, I suppose. The Potter books in general are a prolonged argument for tolerance, a prolonged plea for an end to bigotry, and I think ti's one of the reasons that some people don't like the books, but I think that's it's a very healthy message to pass on to younger people that you should question authority and you should not assume that the establishment or the press tells you all of the truth.

[Ron Weasley]

Rock and roll, nice quote Lupe.

<3

[Remus Lupin]

Thought it might be helpful. <3